Influencers with Andy Serwer: Miguel Cardona

In this episode of Influencers, Andy sits down with U.S. Secretary of Education Miguel Cardona to discuss the state of U.S. education after the pandemic, what’s been happening with student debt relief, and measures the government is putting in place to keep schools safe.

Video transcript

ANNOUNCER: In this episode of "Influencers," United States Education Secretary, Miguel Cardona.

MIGUEL CARDONA: Going to college shouldn't be a sentence of paying bills for the rest of your life.

The teacher shortage issue is a symptom of a teacher respect issue.

If we take care of our educators, they're going to take care of our students better.

[MUSIC PLAYING]

ANDY SERWER: Hello, everyone, and welcome to "Influencers." I'm Andy Serwer. And welcome to our guest, US Secretary of Education, Miguel Cardona. Secretary Cardona, so nice to see you.

MIGUEL CARDONA: Great to be with you, Andy. Thanks.

ANDY SERWER: So we're here in the Glendora, New Jersey, Glendora Elementary School library. Tell us what we're doing here.

MIGUEL CARDONA: We're hearing Glendora Elementary School celebrating being a Blue Ribbon School. They've worked really hard to get this acknowledgment. It's like the Oscars for elementary schools, and they've earned. We were touring different schools, and we know that it's our time to celebrate successes and make sure that we're lifting up best practices. And Glendora Elementary School is one of those schools, where you feel like it's a community, it's a family. Congratulations to them on their Blue Ribbon School.

ANDY SERWER: So talk to us a little bit more, Mr. Secretary, about your bus trip. Were you visiting elementary schools of excellence? Or what was it exactly?

MIGUEL CARDONA: Well, you know, it was a back to school tour. It was called Road To Success. We want to make sure that after these two years, we're moving forward. Managing through a pandemic-- we're going to do that. But that's a low bar. We need to raise the bar. We need to make sure that we're giving kids in our schools an opportunity to grow and do better. I have high expectations for this school year. There's more money in education now through the American Rescue Plan and the yearly appropriations of our Congress and our President.

I expect more. Our kids have suffered enough. So this is the year where our road to success means, we're going to have school programs. We're going to have community schooling. We're going to have colleges that are meeting the basic needs of students so they can succeed. Last month I saw all of that in the six states that I visited in five days.

ANDY SERWER: And you really toured around on bus. That's awesome.

MIGUEL CARDONA: Yeah. It's a great bus. It's great pulling in to an elementary school, seeing the kids cheering and happy. And it's just really celebrating education and the potential that the school year brings.

ANDY SERWER: Is America pretty much back at school, Mr. Secretary, right now? I mean, is remote learning pretty much in the rearview mirror?

MIGUEL CARDONA: It has been for quite some time. Look, when we came in, only 47% of our schools were open full time when the President took office. Fast forward six to eight months, we had over 98% open. And despite Delta and Omicron, we were able to maintain our schools, over 98%, open.

They're open full time. And like I said before, that's a low bar, having our schools open. We expect that. Now it's about, what are we doing to make up for what our students missed, the missed instruction, the mental health supports that they need?

This year I really want to see, across our country, us raise the bar, give kids more opportunity, not only to make up what they lost, but to be innovative and make sure that that love of Education, that love of teaching, that partnership with families, is more vibrant than ever.

ANDY SERWER: The White House recently said that, there were some losses, some setbacks, that occurred that we're having to deal with now in terms of Education levels because of the pandemic. Are there things that your department is doing specifically to address and to make up for that lost time?

MIGUEL CARDONA: Absolutely. It's true. I mean, the nation's report card recently-- nationwide data, reading and math scores showed a dip, a pretty significant dip. I think it was like 7 points in math, 5 points in reading. We have to make that up. And we have to make that up quickly. But we have more funding. We have the urgency.

The Department of Education, what we've done is, we've had webinars to share best practices. My bus tour last month focused on visiting schools that are doing what needs to be done to improve student achievement.

We're focusing on targeting money toward academic enrichment, whole child support like mental health support. And we've also done programs like the National Partnership for School Success. And we also did programs like the National Partnership for Student Success that brought volunteers and different organizations together. We were asking for 250,000 tutors and mentors to help be a part of the recovery of our students and our schools.

ANDY SERWER: Is there any COVID testing going on in schools across the country, or is that pretty much in the rearview mirror?

MIGUEL CARDONA: No, there is testing going on. What we're continuing to do is, follow guidance from CDC. When a community has high risk for transmission, that's when you're going to see more protocols implemented. But you know, I think if we're sensible in how we're moving forward, not ignoring these mitigation strategies-- you know, I'd love to think it's over, but we still know that there are some places where the spread is high.

The last thing we want to do is close our schools or limit students having access to teachers because of the spread. But I'm pretty thrilled in my visits. It's good to see smiling faces. It's good to see families smiling, connected in schools, and being able to learn, without having to use mitigation strategies because they've done a good job before.

ANDY SERWER: Is there anything that we've taken away from the pandemic in terms of remote learning that can be applied going forward? I mean, is there a place for remote learning, maybe in elementary school education?

MIGUEL CARDONA: Absolutely. As a matter of fact, I encourage the use of remote learning for innovative practices that can really enhance learning. I don't want to go back to the system we had in March of 2020. That didn't work for all kids. There is a place for remote learning. It could be blended learning, where you spend some days in the school, some days learning remote. But I remember talking to a student in rural America who said, I wish we had access to teachers that teach subjects that are not taught in my school. That's where remote learning works.

Or that child who is sick and can't be in the classroom physically, but can join the classroom. Technology should enhance learning. And remote learning does have a place. Or-- we know, a couple of years ago, many students are going in hybrid, meaning they were in the school for a couple of days, and at home for a couple of days. What we can consider now is, be in the school for a couple of days, and be remote doing an internship for those high school students, and learning remotely or connecting with your educators remotely. There's room for innovation in education, so we can raise the bar.

ANDY SERWER: And we're much more accepting of that now than we were before. It was either you're in or you're out of school.

MIGUEL CARDONA: Exactly.

ANDY SERWER: Right. Yeah.

MIGUEL CARDONA: That's a very antiquated model if you think about it.

ANDY SERWER: Yeah.

MIGUEL CARDONA: We're working across the country in places that are hybrid. We need to be thinking about opportunities here with what we've learned in the pandemic. Not to mention, our broadband access is better. Now with the infrastructure plan going out, not having the internet is going to be a thing of the past. So we need to take advantage of that.

ANDY SERWER: Another constituent that is that you're concerned about our teachers. And they had it pretty rough during the pandemic as well. There's a teacher shortage. Talk to us about your thinking with regard to teachers.

MIGUEL CARDONA: Definitely. Look, I feel the teacher shortage issue is a symptom of a teacher respect Issue, really. And I started teaching fourth grade many years ago. And back then, I was feeling like I have to prove that it's a profession. And still now, as Secretary of Education, we still have that.

And you know, the pandemic really gave us a moment to reflect on the importance of teachers and the importance of schools. Because when a school shuts down, the community shuts down. Yet in some states, teachers make 33% less than other college graduates. That's unacceptable.

The days of teachers having two to three jobs to make ends meet, that's unacceptable. We need to challenge that. But yet, it still happens. We need to do better. So for me, lifting the profession or respecting the profession means, we give teachers agency, we give them better working conditions. I've been in schools that are over 130, 140 years old, where it's 90 degrees in a classroom. Can you imagine teaching for 6 hours in a 90-degree classroom? That's unacceptable.

Better working conditions, and then competitive salary. We need to make sure we're compensating our educators for the work that they do and the support that they provide our students. If we take care of our educators, they're going to take care of our students better.

ANDY SERWER: Changing gears a little bit. I want to ask you about two subjects that were sort of in the vanguard before the pandemic, maybe less so now. One is charter schools, and the other is for-profit education. You don't hear so much about either one of those right now. Are they still key issues for you to understand and integrate with the system?

MIGUEL CARDONA: You know, I don't know that they are key issues in terms of what I'm hearing regularly, but we just recently passed some regulations around charter schools. And we support public charter schools, and we just want to make sure we're continuing to support public charter schools because they do provide options for families and for students. In terms of for-profit, look, a lot of the work that we've done is really regulating to make sure that for-profit institutions are not making profit off first generation college students who are being misled or are being lied to.

That's not all of them, right. But the majority of the cases that we have to intervene are for-profit institutions that are really looking at our students, not as a future students, but as prey, where they can take advantage of them, and sell them a dream, and put them in debt, and then not deliver on. So we've been focusing on that. I mean, what we did with the loan discharges Corinthian ITT DeVry-- there are some out there that we really have to be careful about. And it's our job to fix a broken system. It's our job to make college affordable and accessible.

And that means getting rid of the bad actors that are taking advantage of our students. So you know, like I said, I don't want to paint with a broad brush, but I will tell you, a lot of the work that we're doing is going after some of those for-profit institutions that are really taking advantage of students.

ANDY SERWER: And what about those who question the value of higher education, saying, it's too expensive to go to college. It's not even worth it. Look at the payoff. How do you feel about that?

MIGUEL CARDONA: Look, I can understand why people feel that way. I was in a high school about half an hour ago, and I was talking to students who are first generation college students. Many of them don't come from wealth, and they're afraid of this process. It's scary. It's our job now to make it more accessible to them. To make sure that the policies that we're doing not only keep costs down, like our income driven repayment announcement that the President made-- loan forgiveness got a lot of attention, but the income driven repayment process, that to me, I'm more excited about that.

It's cutting student loan payments in half, so that it's more accessible to every Americans that want to access higher education. And then after 20 years, you're done. Going to college shouldn't be a sentence of paying bills for the rest of your life and being drowned in debt. And we're also working to make sure we're holding colleges accountable for a good return on investment. Let's be frank, if you're going to spend money to go to college, you should be walking out with higher earning potential so you can take care of those loans.

And if that's not happening at colleges, whether they're private or public, we want to know, and we want to go after that because that's taking advantage of our students. So I'm happy to lift up those examples of where I see it. And on that bus tour, man, I visited so many great colleges that do it well.

But I'm not afraid of naming and shaming colleges that are also taking advantage of students. So it's for all. We have to improve the return on investment, the value in higher education. Once the American people see that that's happening, and that going to college is going to lead to gainful employment, then we're going to remove that myth that it's out of reach for so many because of the cost.

ANDY SERWER: All right. So I have to ask you about student loan debt forgiveness and where that stands right now. I mean, this was a very high profile issue, as you said. Where are we right now with regard to that?

MIGUEL CARDONA: You know, President made a commitment on the campaign to provide debt relief of $10,000, recognizing the pandemic's impact and the inequities that were caused as a result of the pandemic. The President announced $20,000 in debt forgiveness for those who qualify for Pell, which is a grant that folks get if they're in greater need or don't have resources, and $10,000 for all others making under $125,000.

We know that's going to make a difference for those who are impacted by the pandemic. But he also announced the income driven repayment, which is going to lower costs monthly for those who are attending college. And information on that is coming out very soon. We want to make the process simple.

We want to make the process clear, to dispel some of those myths of a bureaucratic system that it takes so long and you have to jump through hoops. So we're really excited about that, and information will be coming out very soon.

ANDY SERWER: It did become a bit of a lightning rod, though. And I'm wondering if you have any thinking as to why that is the case. Some people were very excited about it. Some people were a little unhappy about it.

MIGUEL CARDONA: Well, look, as a first Gen college student myself, as someone who, even though I have much more income than other people going for college, and I'm thinking about my children going to college, I recognize I have to plan for that, I have to budget for that. And for many families, it's significant.

And for too many families, it's so significant that they rule it out. So if we're serious about America being the best, and leading the world, and producing the best thinkers, then we need to invest in education.

But it's almost hypocritical for folks to be complaining about this, yet applauding what we did to keep businesses open during the pandemic through our PPP program. It's even more hypocritical that some of those same people that are complaining voted to support a $2 trillion tax rebate for people-- 85% of those people made more than $75,000, the people that benefit from it. With this plan, we're projecting 90% of the people that are going to benefit from debt relief are people making under $75,000. That's significant.

We're helping working class, middle class Americans, and those who are struggling get back on their feet so they can buy homes, they can get married, they can contribute to the economy. And we're really proud of the work that we're doing.

ANDY SERWER: In what ways will the education department educate Americans about the program? How are you going to tell people about it?

MIGUEL CARDONA: You know, we've been working really hard at FSA to make sure that the process is simple. A lot of people have frustration and trauma over experiences that they had applying for Public Service Loan Forgiveness, for example. They've been waiting on the phone for hours in the last administration. What we're trying to do is simplify the process. We're asking folks to go to studentaid.gov/debtrelief. Sign up there to get emails so when information comes out, they get it directly from us. We want to make the process simple, clear. And we want to make sure that the user experience is a positive one.

ANDY SERWER: Because it's online, though, some people are worried that people who don't have access to the internet might be left out. How are you going to reach them?

MIGUEL CARDONA: We are also working with our stakeholders at the colleges, at the high schools, to make sure that they have information and can help folks access this. We going to be employing navigators to help in our communities to get the message out, to make sure that these folks get the benefits. And we've seen this before.

During the bus tour, I visited, with the Second Gentleman, two-- I visited two events, one with the Second Gentleman, where there was a clinic being put on by their local Union, telling educators how they can access Public Service Loan Forgiveness. And there were people there who are helping those who are eligible for it navigate that process. I expect that it's going to be all hands on deck to make sure that Loan Forgiveness happens to those who are eligible to get there get them back on their feet.

ANDY SERWER: Do you know if the income caps are going to be based on adjusted gross income, or how will you verify income?

MIGUEL CARDONA: '20 or '21 salaries, there's going to be an attestation. And you know, just like we do with others, there's an attestation of the process. We want to keep it simple. And there are processes to verify-- we will do that. But we want to make sure that people who are eligible for it take advantage of it.

ANDY SERWER: All right. Someone asked me to ask you, are you sure the website's not going to crash?

MIGUEL CARDONA: Yeah. Look, this is the most important thing we have going on right now. We're putting a lot of time and energy in making sure that we're planning for this. And my expectation is that, those who are eligible get on, find it to be a quick process, and get the debt relief that they're eligible for, and move on with life. And those are the conversations that I'm having with folks that benefited from the Public Service Loan Forgiveness.

You know, that program, when we came in, had a 98% denial rate. And within a year, we fixed it. And now we have 175,000 people-- and I think the number is up to 200,000, that have gotten debt relief totaling over $13 billion in that program. So we know we have to fix a broken system. And we're working on, not only good policy, but good implementation. A lot of energy is going into that.

ANDY SERWER: Another issue is the interest rate that is charged on these federal loans for students. Some people say they're too high, 5%, 6%, 7%. Are they too high? And why are they where they are?

MIGUEL CARDONA: You know, part of the income driven repayment plan is holding the interest rate, so that we don't see what has happened historically, where people take out $70,000 in loans and end up paying $115,000 because of the ballooning interest cost. So we are managing that and lowering that to make sure that it doesn't balloon out of control, which is another factor that many have shared with me-- is why they're afraid to take out student loans or even go to college.

ANDY SERWER: I want to shift gears and ask you about a couple of other issues. Gun violence in schools and safety. How concerned are you about that? And is there work that your department is doing to that end?

MIGUEL CARDONA: You know, I can tell you, not only as an educator-- I was a fourth grade teacher, I was a school principal and district leader, that was always my priority, ensuring that kids are safe. And I can tell you as a father, there's nothing more important to me than the safety of my children and my wife, who also works in a school.

Last month, the President celebrated the passage of the Bipartisan Safer Communities Act, which will provide $1 billion for mental health support to reduce violence in schools, and another billion to support schools and Title IV efforts to make sure the buildings are safe.

But that alone won't address the bigger issue of ensuring that our communities are safe. Our schools are only as safe as our communities. So it really requires that we all wrap our heads around the issue of community safety and school safety. With regard to schools specifically, we are working, providing technical assistance with superintendents and principals on strategies to make sure that the buildings are as safe as they can be, how to use the money to ensure a safe building, and what protocols to implement. We're also lifting up best practices.

We know principals learn from principals too. So we're creating a strategies for principals to learn from one another on best practices in their communities. So this is something that we're not going to take our eyes off. But we need to keep fighting for legislation that protects our schools and protects our communities. Look, no matter how safe you make your building, if someone walks in with an AR-15-- no school lock is a match for an AR-15. Let's be sensible about legislation. We'll do our best to keep our schools safe, but let's be sensible too.

ANDY SERWER: Our country has become so polarized, and unfortunately, that's become manifested in educational issues. People are complaining about things like what they're calling critical race theory. I'm wondering how you navigate those waters and try to stay in the middle. I would imagine to a degree.

MIGUEL CARDONA: Yeah. You know, my motto here is, we're raising the bar. We're going to catch up our students. We're going to lift up the teaching profession. We're going to rise up above politics. And we're going to partner up with our parents.

You know, there's a small number of politicians that want to make education a divisive issue, but we know better. We know that teachers and parents, they come together for children. That's where students succeed. And in my bus tour and in my visits, that noise, leave that for the politicians. Our educators are focused on doing what's right for kids.

ANDY SERWER: Similar vein, maybe, is, the Supreme Court is looking into admissions policies of institutions of higher learning and is expected to rule. Is that something that you have to keep your eye on, that decision?

MIGUEL CARDONA: Without question. But look, all of our institutions must be inclusive, must be welcoming. We saw this last year, we had states that are passing laws making some students feel unwelcome. And it's unfortunate that in this day and age we're talking about requiring schools to make places inclusive and welcoming. But that's where we are, and we're not going to stop fighting to make sure that all students feel seen, heard, respected, and welcome.

ANDY SERWER: You talked about being a fourth grade teacher growing up in Meriden, Connecticut. What about your background has helped inform you to do your job today, Secretary Cardona?

MIGUEL CARDONA: You know, I come from a family of public servants. My parents served the public. My father was an officer for 30 years, a police officer. My brother's a police officer. And my sister's a social worker. I'm a teacher. Giving back to the community that gave us a lot is really important. I was a student at a public school in a community that was high poverty. Those experiences helped me get to where I am. I wouldn't trade those experiences for anything else. I had good values, a commitment from my family to move forward.

And you know, my parents were really committed to giving me opportunities that they didn't have. Growing up in a diverse community, a community that had many people with need, helped me realize the importance of giving back to the community. And I see my job as an extension of that, just my community is bigger now, it's the whole country.

ANDY SERWER: Yeah. I mean, you could have gone on to become a corporate executive or some other part of government even. What is it that made you want to be an educator and then get to where you are now?

MIGUEL CARDONA: You know, vising students in these classrooms today before this interview is my reminder. You've got to be very clear on what your why is. And I want to help children. I signed up to help children, to help families, to help them see the potential that maybe sometimes they don't even see themselves. And I'm blessed to serve as Secretary of Education, where I have the ability to affect change for 50 million students K-12, and another 17 million in higher education.

To me, that's the biggest blessing, and I'm humbled to do that. But it's still about public service. It's still the same values, the same drive that I had when I was a fourth grade teacher with 21 kids. Those same desires for me to help those kids, now I just have it at a different scale. And now I get to chat with the President about it, which is pretty cool too.

[LAUGHTER]

ANDY SERWER: That's amazing. Are you still in touch with any of your former students? You still see them?

MIGUEL CARDONA: Definitely. I am. Through social media, we're connected. And every once in a while, we communicate. One of them is a mother of two, and we chat. Another one is a pastor in another part of the country. And they're still my inspiration. Those students taught me a lot.

ANDY SERWER: You've got to bring them to the White House sometime, right.

MIGUEL CARDONA: I know.

ANDY SERWER: Right. Let me ask you about Hispanic Heritage Month. That's really between-- it's in the middle of this month to the middle of the next month. What is it that's so special and important to you about that?

MIGUEL CARDONA: You know, when I was introduced to the country, December 23, 2020, in my remarks I said, I'm as American as apple pie and rice and beans. I was born in Connecticut. Celebrating the Hispanic culture, for me, was a sense of self Identity, self pride, knowing who I am, my roots, and the value system that got me to where I am today. So I honored that. And for me-- I tell students all the time, being bilingual and bicultural is a superpower. And it's not just language, it's helpful for me to know Spanish.

I can do interviews in Spanish. I can talk to parents that only speak Spanish. I can talk to millions more around the world. But being bicultural, being able to understand that, you could do things differently, and it's still good.

That helped me reopen schools. I had to take different perspectives, different from my own, but I had to learn how to navigate that, and welcome that, and accept that, in order to get to what we needed to do. And so for me, Hispanic Heritage Month is an opportunity to celebrate being bicultural, and all the beauty of the Puerto Rican culture that helped me get to where I am.

ANDY SERWER: OK. US Secretary of Education, Miguel Cardona, thank you so much for your time.

MIGUEL CARDONA: Thank you so much. Take care.

ANDY SERWER: You've been watching "Influencers." I'm Andy Serwer. We'll see you next time.